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So, where's the pornography in today's shooting?
"You gota blame somebody! You can't take the blame yourself!.
That is the new thought process.I did some thinking about it.
example
"My mother didn't let me have a bb gun to shoot squirrels.So I went and bought a Ak-47 and shot people!"
You see,I coulda claimed that 20-30 years ago and folks would have thought I was bonkers. But now, it would be considered a legit reason!
How could that happen? To much psycho babble in the legal system.
If a person is wacko and someone knows it,take care of them before they kill"
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one with a touch of common sense around here.
Well Said!
I personally give no one a pass for outside influences, it's as simple as that. Each person is responsible for their own actions, period!
I was rockin out to the White Zombie and decided I should go kill Mormons. What kinda fucking non sense would it be to blame White Zombie?
That is the new thought process.I did some thinking about it.
example
"My mother didn't let me have a bb gun to shoot squirrels.So I went and bought a Ak-47 and shot people!"
You see,I coulda claimed that 20-30 years ago and folks would have thought I was bonkers. But now, it would be considered a legit reason!
How could that happen? To much psycho babble in the legal system.
If a person is wacko and someone knows it,take care of them before they kill.
I'll indulge you anyway...
The answer you seek, is... Donald J. Trump's mere existence, coupled with white nationalists, conservatives, fox news, Republicans, and NRA members. Take your pick as to which one or all holds the blame.
They surely aren't just wack jobs that should have been aborted long ago... It's someone else's fault, shooters hold NO responsibility for their actions when they're being bombarded with such ignorance from any and or all the above mentioned sources.
Do I win?
But the statement that guns are responsible for killing is equally silly. People are responsible for killings. Guns do not have free will to shoot anyone, people do. Availability of guns makes it easier. But I grew up in a country with strictest gun laws, criminals still had them and people still were killed. You want to be a famous mass murderer? You grab a car and hit a crowd at 90 mph. You just want to enjoy killings silently? You don't need a gun at all. Most of serial killers do not use guns and they often manage to kill 30-50 people before being caught if caught at all.
Now, of course you can kill someone with a car. However, those who target schools are not doing it because they want to kill anyone, they want to kill their classmates, their teachers. They don't want to drive a car to hit an arbitrary crowd, they want to hit school members. This is easier to do it with a gun. Cars are not effective in schools, pupils can't drive a car easily in a classroom full of students, it's easier for them to shoot with a gun.
This January in Russia there were 2 attacks at schools with Molotov cocktail and an axe. 4 injured in one case, 15 in the other.
Banning all guns wont change things much at schools. Then you will have to ban axes, knives, screwdrivers, put under control a bunch of substances including fertilizer and domestic solvents. And then you will be all slaves to your government afraid to sneeze. But I guess some people like that more than freedoms.
It has happened around here to be cleaning up a estate where a elderly farmer has died and find dynamite that has leaked. Have to call in specialist to clean it up.Used to could buy it at the local hardware to get rid of stumps when clearing fields. Due to idiots that kill and destroy you have to hire contractors with backhoes to remove stumps instead of a couple cheap sticks of dynamite.
Most people consider killing and maiming disgusting. It is the sick 1's that don't.
I wonder what we could do with the sicko's if we could find them BEFORE they kill?
Really. Wake up. You're just spouting what 'they' want you to say and believe while 'they' make small individual fortunes producing weapons...This country is ALL about money and you and I are NOT part of that 1%...We are just the cannon fodder dying @ over 11,000 of us a year. 32,000 including suicide by gun. Just to support their wealth.
Also, I'm not American, I lived most of my life in countries where guns were not permitted. And I did not feel safer at all, comparing to the time I lived in USA. But I did feel much less free there than in USA.
You do not value freedom and you are destined to lose it. You will understand what you lost only when it's too late.
You and I are talking from different viewpoints. So sad. So is everybody else these days...I wish you much peace and happiness in your life in this country.
they're caught. For the rest of us potential killers, guns ARE the weapon of choice
Do you know that thugs in Russia or in South America where they don't have guns often hit you with something heavy in the head when they want to rob you and you often die or become a vegetable while in other countries where they rob you with a gun if you do not resist you most likely to survive?
But anyway, that's not what you really have to weight in. You have to compare how much robberies, home intrusions, r@pes and other crimes are stopped yearly against death from guns. Almost all of those crimes will be unstopped if you ban guns. Don't count on police, when you are killed they will do an autopsy.
Also, you have chances to be shot in mass murder about 1 in 11000. You have 1 in 51 chances to die from diabetes. Makes much more sense to ban sugar and candy than guns.
It surprises me that you live in a culture of guns and understand so little about how it works. Armed society is not about you having gun to protect yourself. It's about other law-obedient honest people having guns and able to help you.
In society where guns are prohibited it's typical that someone is being robbed or beaten and others just pass by or film it with their phones. No one intervenes.
And don't be naive, they won't stop at guns ban. They will issue other laws later that make self-defense difficult. Most of countries with no guns have such laws. You can go to prison for injuring a thug that tried to rob you.
Guns, weapons of ALL kinds, are going to be the ending of man'kind'. There has to be a start to ending this madness that has over 14,000 Nuclear Weapons Worldwide...Microcosm vs Macrocosm. It's ALL connected.
People still wanted it, they got it and drank.
The government realized that they could make money,so they started selling the alcohol to the people.And they still Drink. Only now 1000's of dollars are made by lawyers and l@wenforcement for various reasons like Dui.
Now, if we applied that same logic to guns. People want to kill. Take away the guns. People will still want to kill. Before you know it the ABC store will be selling bullets and people will still be wanting to kill.
It goes back to what I have been harping on for a week on this thread. Figure out why some people know not to kill and teach that information to the rest. Those that learn run free, those that don't go somewhere locked up.
Locking up is not to help the person with the issue.Locking up is to preserve the lives of his potential victims.
My old rickety pea shooter has been in the drawer for months. I debated for years about even getting 1 as I have always been naive and figured I didn't need 1 until a few years ago a cripple guy's house was broke into and he got hurt up really bad.Still aint found the assholes that did it.
My pea shooter Hasn't hurt anyone. BUT if someone comes in to do harm, I will take my chances against a jury of 12 over a group of 6 friends toting my dead ass to the grave any day. I refuse to be a easy pin cushion for someone elses uncontrollable inner rage.
Attention seeking kids thinking life has a reset button just like the latest gadget.
I would add,kids being bullied and the school doing nothing to prevent bullying but say you shouldn't do it.That is like saying "don't Steal" It still happens.
How damn hard is it to fence in a school and have 1 vehicle gate and 1 walk in gate? Not hard at all. But no,let's have a AstroTurf football field and plenty of trees and ways for shooters to get in. Prioritys ,some folks have them backwards.
Some republicans say so and, most definitely, they're the religious types (i.e. the majority of them). You think it's dumb and so do I and many other people, but ask one of those "good" bible belt americans if pornography causes school shootings and they'll agree.
"fence in a school and have 1 vehicle gate and 1 walk in gate"
And America will be known as the no. 1 country in the so-called free world whose schools resemble prisons. Schools are free man, free places of learning. Think of the consequences of such an act. What is needed, in the long run, is reformation of the whole society, education and (as aussieman said below) discipline the kids and also help them when they're in crisis. In a society where medical care is only available to the ones who can afford it, where kids grow up in extreme poverty, in conditions that are worse than those in the third world, school shootings have become a fashionable way of expressing their anger.
Take a look at the just released video of the k1d who caused the shooting in Florida:
only registered users can see external links
The k1d is obviously SICK. Had he ever had a parent, a friend, to turn to? How did he grow up? In what conditions? I don't know, but I suspect he never received medical and human help. It is NOT normal for a k1d to pick up a gun and shoot everyone to express his anger.
BUT if you stop and think, how many years will it take to reinstate the value of life into **** that grow up to be parents. 50 years? 100 years?.
Granted, if we could wake up in the morning and folks dust off the old Paddle and they started guiding k1ds back in line things would improve overnight.
BUT there are those that think a k1d is supposed to be free to express themselves and paddling is bad!. Give them a time out or something instead. Time out is time they don't have to do anything. So nothing gained there.
A fence,would take a couple months to budget for,a couple months to install and would protect the current generations from the enemy.While inside the fence the k1ds could be handed books to read or computer links to read to relearn the value of life and say 50 years from now,the fences would be rusted and ready to take down because they would no longer be needed. It is a immediate patch so to speak.Not a ideal final solution.
Now,here is where I will veer off from some folks opinions.
Religion. I know some folks here think it is more evil than the Devil himself. BUT even a atheist would have to agree if they do their research, most religions instill a value of life into their followers. The Bible teaches taking life is a sin for example. When the Bible was in the schools and most homes 40 years ago,school shootings weren't as common.
I expect the back lash to this from a liberal would be the AK47 and AR15's were not common weapons so the kids had nothing to shoot with. Well the last shooting I remember hearing about was a old 38 pistol and a shotgun. Those were handy back then. Some shotguns were in the back windows of seniors pickups back when I was in high school. Religion is 1 of the differences from back then to now.
Pills they give k1ds to "treat" their problems,I blame alot of this shit on those. The k1ds are influenced by the medicines.
than the devil. "
Now, this is a religious statement.
The word "evil" is invented by religions,
especially the so-called monotheistic ones.
What's a devil? Some kind of thing
that is taught by some religions.
Religion is just a collection of
irrelevant doctrines. And, yes, unfortunately, we can't get rid of it
so easily as it's the product of thousands
of years of stupidity. Stupidity that helped
people survive 20 thousand years ago,
but which is irrelevant now.
But anyway, Let me ask a question.
Let's say there was no religion for a moment.No one believed in anything.
Someone walks in and kills someone in front of you. You were not taught killing is wrong or evil.You were not taught life has value,because that is taught along with other things in religion.
What would your response be to the killing you witnessed?
"Oh that is terrible" "Someone call the law to have the killer arrested". Most responses you come up with would have some reference or basis from religion's value of life.
Without it,you would not know killing was wrong or terrible or evil or whatever. Some warped people might even take think it was cool to watch someone take their last breath.
What would society base it's concept of right and wrong on without previous influence of religion?
Without it,would any of us be left? I mean folks would just go out and kill for the fun of it. Well some already do but I guess it would be more popular.
Just food for thought.
If we are to teach kids it is wrong to kill,and religion has to be left out of the picture,we need to have something to base the lessons on don't we?
In fact, it is religion that causes republican senators say stupidities like pornography causes shootings. Religion makes your brain numb.
The other absurd thing about religion is that, no matter how much evidence you give against it, you will never convince a religionist to rid of the disease.
According to republican beliefs where abortion ja porn, and maybe liberals and gays are to blame for school shooting, then europeans schools should be like war zones.
What i dont understand about religious people, is that while they make lots of debate about gay rights, womens rights, evolution and morality and much others, they dont check the facts before adding their views for debate. Example when they say that evolution is false, they argue that "why my bike dont turn into whale if i left that there for years?". Or that there is no evidence. Everyone who knows about evolution theory know whats wrong with those arguments. Science is like their worst enemy and always wrong.
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And when it comes to guns. Byers backrounds must be checked. No matter how much conservatives wish that even crazy ones can get them.
Don't go to evolution. This is a serious religious matter for them. It's so bad that they influence schools, politics, everything. In Kentucky, the State supported the building of a "replica" of Noah's Arc only registered users can see external links . It's done by the same guy who has the anti-evolution museum only registered users can see external links where (some) schools send k1ds for "education". In Florida, almost next to Disney World, there's a theme park, the Holy Land experience only registered users can see external links , almost next to Disney World, where people go watch Jesus be crucified a few times per day.
Imagine such things in Finland! Impossible. In fact, if you tell Finnish people that the above exist in the US they won't believe you. Alas, they do.
Now, talking about guns, in Finland people own a lot of guns. Of course, the population is much smaller and most of the guns are used for sporting. I don't know how hard it is for someone to get a gun in Suomi, but I presume that if someone had a gun on display in Finland, e.g., if he went to university with a gun attached to his belt, he would be arrested. Not in Texas. In Texas they passed a law last year making it legal for students to bring guns in the university classroom. only registered users can see external links And they do. My friends tell me they know students who carry their guns in classes just because they want to piss off the lecturer. If the lecturer complains, they report him/or her and he/she gets disciplined or dismissed.
I've seen many many stupid things happening in different countries, from US to Bangladesh, from Antarctica to Finland, when I worked for international organizations.
As we said, however, the percentage of creationists in the US HAS gone down. 38% is a very rough estimate, it's still not great, but it's better than 50%.
There is no book,there is no instinct so there has to be some baseline for a parent to say,"Son,don't take that gun and hurt someone,it is wrong". When the son ask, "what makes it wrong?". What is the reply?
You could say "It is against the law". "but dad,why is it against the law?"
Until we can give solid answers, there will be death and unanswered questions.
That being said, on a certain level of education (which is not so high by modern standards) religion stops being useful and starts being a handicap and a deterrent.
However, what 'Religion' and what is the basis?? Some radical 'Fundamentalist' kinds of 'Religions' have become quite popular to the ones you speak of, as they make promises, and offer things, much the way that Hitler did, during his rise to power in the 1930's. Others have used the same 'emotional' appeals to the 'oppressed' to motivate them to do GREAT EVIL, in the name of 'Religion'.
I would certainly agree that 'Education' is rather the thorn in the A$$ of 'Religion'. I think ultimately, though, THINKING, and a person that can reason, and choose for themselves, with good tools, based in a solid education, is far better than Religion, of any kind.
Anyway, it seems the wrong topic to discuss on a site like this!!!!
As for wrong subject for this site - you'd be surprised how many people specify as reason for deleting their account something like "this is sinful I need to reconnect with god".
Thank you for the information about why some people quit this site. Of course, the word "sin" is idiotic. It has been introduced by monotheistic religions, Christianity notwithstanding, religions that are obsessed with one's genitals. Although There is no connection between morality and sex drive, the aforementioned religions have almost as their primary goal to suppress sex and sexual drive. The religious person, who unfortunately suffers from the religious disease, can't think independently and makes correlations between unrelated things (sex and mortality). And they torture themselves. The human mind is amazing. It creates fake idols (gods, deamons, fairies, devils, spirits, etc) and then completely submits to them.
Incidentally, the word submission in Arabic is islam.
Well, apparently there is not much to explain in atheism either.I have been trying to get a explanation of where the "common sense" comes from that prevents killing among atheist and haven't got that answer yet!
A rule,a idea,a concept,a fantasy,a law, all come from somewhere. The notion not kill your fellow man has to come from somewhere. At least if someone is muslim and they blow themselves up trying to kill someone else, others can point at their religion and say,that is where the idea came from.
A school shooter, somehow has it in their mind it is ok to kill. They lost that common sense or were never taught it.
So if religions concepts are not a suitable solution, then the non believers should be able to step up to the plate with a explanation or concept founded on something else.
Just trying make a productive conversation. Religion is loosing ground among the young.Churches are loosing members and so forth. So perhaps we can't depend on religion to maintain some control over human impulses.
So it might behoove the atheist to start explaining how their system works.
It's sometimes hard to get out of the 'intellectual' and imagine the 'small minds'. . .
And think about it for a minute seriously. If you were 15, and had a issue you needed help with.Let's say you got a girl pregnant.Ok, 1 parent that won you in a divorce case 10 years ago is a drunk laid up in the bed fucking someone else at the moment.The other parent is in prison.The step parent is 3 states away working all the time and h8tes your guts. You need advice on how to deal with a friend you fucked and her belly is swelling up.Who do you turn to?
Since some folks think religion should be out of picture,we will eliminate a preacher or other religious leader from the list to select from.
That leaves, A doctor? A policeman? A tv talk show host? I mean really,who would you go to? The foot ball coach that gave you the cheap rubber that busted? The principle that is having a affair with the coach?
You go "home",a place you hat3 and there is a gun.Hum,judging from how my video game works this thing could get me some attention from someone. I could eliminate all my problems and run and hide under the 4th street bridge the rest of my life! Yep,that is my solution.
There is no 1 to trust anymore.. think about that and get back to me as to who you feel could be trusted with my example problem?
With all the folks over here now trying to change things, it would sure be nice if they could EXPLAIN their "system" since it is so incompatible with ours.
I am asking for a explanation of how this system of no religion works without a foundation of something.With the lack of beliefs,the lack of any kind of written word,with the lack of any tradition, with the lack of any guidance at all,what keeps you folks from exterminating each other?
For example, Thou shalt not kill
Ok, so it comes from the 10 commandments.
You don't have those, so how do you explain to a offspring not to kill? Back to my question ask in a different way.
What are the building blocks of a system without any religious influence?
Not arguing, trying to understand.
It seems we all can agree we don't want our offspring shooting each other while they are "being educated".
But I am trying to figure out how in the hell we are supposed to teach them otherwise with nothing under our feet but hot air.Youth question authority. Ask any parent.So authority needs to have a strong foundation and not slip.
Anyone who has any common sense, knows that everyone must be respected. Religion is not needed there.
Where did the common sense come from? It sure as hell aint instinctive.
When someone questions their "right" to kill or steal, something has to be in place to enforce the rule of don't do it.
jsmythe73 seems to understand
However, due to the rise of civilication and humanity on near history, most peoples with non or very few christian beliefs also acknowleges that example stealing from other people and killing is wrong. Therefore concept "not one can be moral without religion" is outdated. Still many people believes that idea.
There has been at least one study, that everywhere most people, even atheist believe that atheist are more immoral than other, except here in Finland and New Zealand.
only registered users can see external links
I you you have not travelled much outside the US and you haven't come across other cultures
Neither have you delved in other religions. Your version of Christianity is just a religion among hundreds of others. By only knowing your religion (and it's just an unfortunate accident of birth that you have it) you are in no position to discuss in any semi - intelligent way. That's fine man. You're just one of millions of Americans. It's not your fault.
I also bet you can't read another language other than English. So you can't really see what's elsewhere. In fact, if you knew, your whole world view would be shaken.
qoute
"You can't understand either that there's no such thing as good/bad dichotomy. "
To tell me that I can't understand and leave the question unanswered is not much different than you asking me to find Budda or Jesus and get their autograph to prove to you there is a God. You are asking me to have faith in your ideals without any solid evidence. Not having a religion doesn't seem much different in the long term than having 1.
To say I can't understand,is to say I can't be educated, or I am to dumb,or that you can't explain it. I feel like if you took the time to explain you probably could. I refrain from calling people stupid unless they really try hard to prove they are.
Also,I think if I took the time to read it I could at least get a glimpse of how others think.
Sometimes a complete understanding is not needed for that ah ha moment to happen you know.
I have tried my damnest to imagine a "Bubble Boy" type situation where as offspring would be kept in a bubble environment with only food water and a simple 6th grade education. No outside influence other wise and then turn it loose on it's 18 anniversary of it's coming into the world.
I wonder how it would react to seeing another human.Would it steal the other humans food or would it find a gun and kill the other human? Would it go to a school and shoot people?
Folks with alternative views of life could make alot of headway in getting along with others if they explained themselves a bit better as to how they came about their ideas,lifestyle and moral compass.
Then once that understanding is achieved, you take that knowledge to the class room,the doctors office and the jail.
IF you help these folks understand killing is not a desirable social behavior then alot of our problems would dwindle.Lack of a compass has led alot of these shooters to the decision to kill.
The number of puss's and dicks they saw on the web aint got a thing to do with shooting people.I must say the NRA dropped the ball on that and it rolled under the bleachers.
Morality is just the product of evolution.
**** are moral too.
Religion is a disease in the human brain,
an unfortunate product of natural selection,
it Is the price we pay for having developed
an intelligent brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Any species that develops intelligence will probably
also develop religion at some point. Other human ****
in the past most likely had religion too. Homo neaderthalensis
for example has evidently had religious traits too.
We're not sure about other **** as they've been extinct
for hundreds of thousands of years.
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**** = an1mals
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