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Is that it? Or is there more?
Because I agree that is pretty bad. Supporting Palestinians is the opposite of supporting the terrorists, who not only killed and kidnapped many innocent people,
but now obviously also assured the impending murder of many Palestinians by Israel.
Meanwhile, you are saying that the whole Gaza strip should be taken in by Israel.
That is a horrific statement that you should be ashamed for.
But save yourself the trouble, because it doesn't matter.
A terrorist has no level of depth, they don't want to descend to.
That's why no one cares when Israel kills those terrorists.
But there are standards that nation states have to uphold.
That's why they shouldn't lower themselves to the level of terrorists.
Do you understand that? It very much appears like you don't.
I am not going to 'research' all the incredibly incremental and anecdotal shit,
that you want me to look at, because you are not taking your responsibility
to do general research into world problems that really matter.
Are you telling something new, that I didn't 'research'?
For everything that happens in the world, you just listen to propaganda.
I do the hard thing; researching the causes and solutions.
You don't add anything significant to that discussion.
Israel descents bombs that kill innocent people. At least 8,000 now.
More than 40% of the Palestinians killed in Gaza are children,
the child death toll has reached 3,457 yesterday.
I asked you a question:
Should nation states lower themselves to the level of terrorists?
I do not support the killing of civilians, even if they agree with terrorist acts,
and of course I do not support killing children, not by intent and not 'by accident'.
I do not support Hamas; I am fine with Israel killing every single one of them, without a trial. It's not what a civilized country should do, but clearly you are OK with a country just executing people they call terrorists. I agree it would be to much to ask to arrest and judge all Hamas terrorists, therefore just hunting them down and shooting them is fine by me. However, I draw the line at bombing whole apartment buildings for a claim that there are Hamas terrorist hiding there. That is causing too much collateral damage.
Now, if that is too much to ask, from a country which calls themselves a democracy, then it is lowering itself to the level of terrorists. I do not support terrorist act, not from Hamas and not from Israel. That makes me better than YOU. Even while I don't believe in a soul or karma, supporting terrorist acts is something my conscience does not allow. I don't know if you expect to be judged by a god after you die, but if you do, ask yourself if that god would be OK with you supporting what Israel is doing. Maybe the god from the old testament would allow it, but I thought Christians supported Jesus. And that Jewish socialist hippie would not like you, for many reasons, but also for this.
I don't want Israel to be genocidal maniacs, because that WILL cause more hate and extremism. That's the opposite of supporting terrorists.
I want less terrorists, not more. When will you understand that your way of 'fighting terrorism' only creates MORE OF IT? You really didn't learn anything from Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
Why should I care about censure of congress persons?
Those are just political games. That's not what censure is intended for.
You answered (Nov 11, 00:46): "Hell fucking yes,..."
I asked you: "Is there a level of brutality that you would criticize Netanyahu for, or does he have carte blanche?"
You answered (Oct 31, 04:41): "He has carte blanche, gold and platinum until all of them uncivilized savage SOB are dead and yes palestinians that support hamas as well."
On Oct 31, 23:50 you added: "That's what YOU ARE SAYING, by saying Netanyahu "has carte blanche, gold and platinum until all of them uncivilized savage SOB are dead and yes palestinians that support hamas as well." DAMN FUCKING STRAIGHT."
I said: "Stop bombing hospitals, schools and apartment buildings. Stop cutting off people from water, food and power. Stop doing genocide."
You answered (Nov 1, 23:39): "Like I stated to you, hard to do when the cowards use hospital and civilians for cover."
On Nov 1, 23:52 you said: "Yes it is end of time for some and it is the end of civilation for those left standing."
When you implied that Israel is trying to minimize collateral damage, I said "No they are not, that will not result in 8000 deaths, with more than 40% children."
You answered (Nov 3, 01:46): "Actually it does not matter how many deaths it takes if palestinian hamas is fucking annihilated. That will guarantee that they will not do anymore terrorist acts. They are fucking savages and deserve to die. Coward bastards hide behind innocent civilians, no how the fuck do you suppose we kill the fuckers without collaterl damage and ensure in the process they will do no harm to more innocents."
That's you clearly not caring about innocent Palestinians dying and supporting Netanyahu even if he kills ALL OF THEM. That's genocide. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO'S LYING!
Feel free to keep that crap up. I will not though. Again I do not mind if you feel it necessary. PM, 'p' means private.
If you don't want your PM's copy-pasted here, don't lie that I'm lying.
women and children around them.
It's like if a cop shoots an RPG into a crowd, to kill a murderer.
They can kill the terrorists, but not the civilians, period.
But Netanyahu wants to kill civilians, because he's an evil bastard.
Netanyahu even supported Hamas, so he would be allowed to kill civilians.
So if you want to kill Hamas supporters, start with Netanyahu.
But it's applicable that we have this discussion in this forum.
Your own question is: "do All lives matter...". Your answer is definitely: 'NO!'.
I must admit, this is a strange but good thing,
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So I guess i will go by there and eat a little more often.
Just because Israel does fucked-up shit, doesn't make Hamas good.
Israel is stealing land, because of their horrible religious beliefs.
Hamas just gave them the justification to steal more land and kill more Palestinians
and Israel is taking that justification. I would be surprised if they don't steal the North
of the Gaza strip now.
Hamas is just a horrible Islamic extremist organization, who is using the suffering
of the Palestinians to spread their horrible ideology.
There is no good side here, only evil sides.
Well, that would make them worse than Hamas, or don't you think so?
And what is keeping hamas from leaving with the palestinians just to come back when the shit settles down?
this is a terrible situation, but hamas had no business attacking for no reason ,that is why it is terrorism and a swift, brutal response is in order to deter further attacks
Israel has been in the cross hairs for so long,It is easy for me to understand why and how they came to this point of "fuck it, kill em all". Enough is enough. Israel was given the Jews in 1945 to try to give them a new start in the land holy to them,
hamas and iran are right in the same boat with hitler regarding the jews.it was fine to go after hitler but suddenly the jews are just supposed to sit back and take it?? Naw, let them defend themselves.They have been persecuted enough.
"Israel was given the Jews in 1945" People were already living there!
Only people who own something have the right to give that something away.
How would you like it, if we give your state to the Palestinians?
"Israel has been in the cross hairs for so long"
As they should be, for stealing people's houses and land.
I don't give a fuck if the land is holy to them. They don't have any more right to it than the people who lived there and also claim their land is holy to them.
Israelis and Palestinians are genetically indistinguishable from each other.
The only thing that divides them is those fucking religions.
Man, do I wish that people can finally get past that bullshit.
How would you like to be in a prison,watch your family be taken to a oven and burned, and be rescued, and given a home, only to grow up and have to fight just to be left alone?
All that has to happen is the hamas group be eliminated.
And hasbroloa or how ever you spell it. BUT the Palestinians aid and abet hamas, so are they innocent?
Don't you know any history? Then there was a new region that didn't exist before, stolen from Palestine and it was called Israel. Then from then forth, Israelis kept stealing houses and land and slowly or not so slowly enlarged Israel and reduced what was left of Palestine. They kept building houses for Israelis in occupied territory, breaking every treaty that was ever made and breaking international law.
Israel has been a horrible apartheid regime for decades.
They have never accepted the sovereignty of Palestine, they have never been serious about peace and they have only ever aspired to the destruction of Palestine.
"they are citizens and have a right to be just as any Palestinian has."
Then why are you allowing them to take it from the Palestinians?
No, the Palestinians are not innocent. As I told you before, there is no good vs evil here. There is just a people with longer rights to the land, which are the Palestinians, and there are conquerors, who are the Israelis.
Palestinians are stupid to look to horrible Islamic extremists for their protection, because horrible Islamic extremists don't care about people. They only care about spreading their ideology and they would sacrifice anyone for that goal.
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"Early in the second century A.D., the Emperor Hadrian prohibited the Jews from entering Jerusalem. From that period dates the dispersion of Jews throughout the world. Since then, until the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, no Jewish Government has existed in Palestine. Although some Jews have always lived in Palestine, their numbers have fluctuated depending on the tolerance of the successive rulers."
It used to be acceptable to just create a big militia, enter an area that doesn't belong to you, kill and subjugate all the inhabitants and place your flag on it.
At some point, civilization decided that this is no longer acceptable. In the 18th century, the 'Right of Conquest' is a right of ownership to land after immediate possession via force of arms. It was recognized as a principle of international law. Then after the Second World War, the 'Right of Conquest' was outlawed as a crime against peace, introduced in the Nuremberg Principles, in 1945.
There is an argument for claiming that Palestine had been legitimately conquered by the British empire and the land of Israel was legitimately 'gifted' to the Jews, calling it Israel. However, international law has encouraged many conquering nations, who owned land they conquered before 1945, to give back that land to its original occupants. Still, I would personally recognize the original borders of Israel, but I consider it a crime against the freedom of religion, which was at that time laid down in every constitution, to define Israel in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state". I also consider it a crime against international law, every time Israel expanded its borders at the detriment of the Palestinian state. According to international law, the colonies in occupied Palestine are illegal.
I'm sure you don't like how children are getting bombed to death either.
But you are still supporting Israel to keep doing that.
Nearly 5,100 Palestinians have been killed in the Gaza Strip,
nearly half of them are children. That's terrorism TOO!!!
How about being a 'realist' on that?
The truth, in my mind, is that all war is an act of terrorism, just in a bigger scale. We tend to separe killings by the number of people killed in each occasion. One person killing another is an act of terrorism. One nation killing five million +/- people is terrorism. Shooting innocent civilians from a hang glider is that too. Some people say that war is Hell. It’s a gentrified way of saying that in war, killing it expected without any concern for whom gets in the way.
As I’ve said before in different words, I’m mortified about the suffering of ALL CHILDREN, but not so much for the people that started this, directly or indirectly.
But I don't think you can say they 'started this'. This conflict has been going on for decades and the atrocities performed by Israel, during most of that time are just as horrible.
Before this terrorist act, Israel has been killing many Palestinian children too. They have snipers killing children from the guard towers. How is that different from Hamas' terrorist attack?
report on many cold-blooded murders.
If there is a justification for Israel to do horrible things, than your one-sided 'the past is the past' is not fair.
Your government has outlawed the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement, which non-violent international diplomacy support for the right of Palestinians to exist, so you cut of their methods for non-violent protesting. And when they do violent protests it is a justification to mass-murder them.
So what you're saying is that Palestinians should just shut-up and take whatever Israel does to them. What is left for them? Just wait until Israel or the rest of the world decides that they have a right to live somewhere too?
Public opinions on the BDS movement and anti-BDS laws
Edit
According to University of Maryland's Critical Issues Poll from October 2019, a majority of Americans oppose anti-BDS laws; 72% opposed laws penalizing people who boycott Israel and 22% supported such laws. The poll also found a strong partisan divide on BDS; among those who had heard of BDS, 76% of Republicans opposed the movement, compared to 52% of Democrats.[8] In a 2019 poll from Data for Progress 35% to 27% opposed anti-BDS laws. Split by party affiliation, 48% of Democrats opposed anti-BDS laws and 15% supported them; 27% of Republicans opposed anti-BDS laws and 44% supported them. 70%-80% believed boycotts were a legitimate protest tactic.[9] According to a 2022 survey by the Pew Research Center, 5% of Americans support BDS and 84% do not know much about it. 17% of Republicans have some familiarity with BDS compared to 15% of Democrats, while 7% of the latter and 2% of Republicans support the movement.[10]
CAT
Ananas, the laws you are talking about affect government contracts and entities, but, the public has access to the BDS and their political views. Bottom line? Israel and Palestine are now, and have been, in a state of war.
I know you have a narrow view of the freedoms we enjoy in this country, especially as to what’s available to us in the news. I believe you are confusing what the great unwashed of this country consider worthy of them to find out about with what is really available. That’s two different things.
Even if most people supported anti-BDS laws, it would still not be OK to pass them, because BDS is free speech, which is protected by your Constitution. Is it OK to pass laws that are in conflict with the Constitution?
It that 'a narrow view of the freedoms you enjoy in your country'?
When politicians in my country try to pass laws that are in conflict with our Constitution, they are immediately pushed back by either the House of Representatives or the Senate or not immediately but later some judge.
We don't even need a Supreme Court to get that right.
You do have a Supreme Court, who's only job is testing laws against the Constitution. How can your country fuck up that responsibility so much?
The people you elect are not doing what you want, but what their donors want.
Republicans made it even easier for themselves; they made their voters think they want what their donors want and they made them think what they get is what they want.
In short, the donors decide what you get. That's not democracy.
True, there are many other countries like that, but that doesn't make
it good. America once provided the best example for democracy.
You could do that again, but you got to have better standards for politicians. They should serve you and not just themselves.
It also relies on having choices for who to vote for
and accurate, objective information about those choices.
In a winner takes all system, like the US, the people are forced to vote for either one of the two corrupt parties, or their vote is meaningless. Since all your media is owned by big corporations who use it as their personal propaganda outlet, you are only getting told the truth, if they want you to know the truth and then they still always put their own spin on it.
That's why the US is ranked 36th by Quality of Democracy.
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You're followed by Cape Verde, Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago.
Restoring democracy will happen when all the libs are ousted. You know that Ananas2xLekker.
BTW who the fuck cares what others think of us, we know you hate America as many other turds hate America.
How do you define democracy exactly? Sort of like Putin does?
their principles on how the country needs to be organized?
you are a much more civilized person to talk with even when in total disagreement than Leo. But I will say the same thing I said to him. along with the criticism, share some solutions. Jerusalem is where Jesus was born, that land is holy to the jewish people. millions were slaughtered by hitler, a group of civilized countrys, made it so their holy land would legally be their home. IF you watch the videos I posted on another thread for leo, Truman explains the people that left the land, were COMPENSATED for it, it was NOT stolen.
The only thing holy to a muslim is having your blood all over themselves while laughing and chasing a goat for pleasure.
Likewise, does Israel have no justification to commit terrorism.
The definition of terrorism is: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Many acts of Israel are terrorism, by definition.
Still, Israel has the right to defend itself.
Israel is allowed to attack Hamas terrorists.
But their level of 'collateral damage' is unacceptable.
It's you, who is defending terrorism, not me.
Also Palestine has the right to defend itself.
If they attack an Israeli military target, that's not terrorism.
Just as it wouldn't be terrorism if Israel targets JUST Hamas.
It's the percentage of innocent civilians getting killed, that makes it terrorism.
It's the methods and the results that define terrorism, not which side commits it.
you have no idea how good you have it. They don't have a choice.
Throwing away freedom is easy, getting it (back) is almost impossible.
Even Netanyahu supported Hamas, because Hamas assures him no peace.
Whenever Hamas kills his people, he is justified to keep stealing more land.
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I would rather no innocent people were hurt or killed,I would rather hamas had never attacked those folks at that shin dig and killed them.BUT hamas did and now they are reaping the harvest from the seeds of hate and violence they sown, They hopefully will get a bountiful crop, looks like about half the place is flat already.
with your own concept of 'to the victor go the spoils'.
Just because that's often how war goes, doesn't mean it should be.
The traitors of your civil war were legitimately dealt with.
The south should have been under better control to not let racism brew,
but the citizens should have been protected and treated well.
There is however no parallel with the Israeli Palestine conflict, other than
who kills too many citizens as collateral damage is a war criminal.
"looks like about half the place is flat already."
Most likely! And then what? When the north of Gaza is flattened, push back all the Palestinians from the south back to the north and than flatten the south? Then all the Palestinians live among the rubble, even more dependent on Hamas to feed them and put a roof over their heads again. That wall is still there, Egypt and Libanon still don't allow them to leave.
It's either die, or support Hamas. With many of their children, spouses, family and friends having been killed by Israel, that sure is a hard choice, right?
I'm asking you; is that the intention?
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before Jim Crow.
Ben is already biassed on subjects that he doesn't care about.
How objective am I supposed to think he is on Israel, being Jewish?
He doesn't even consider the AIPAC to be the 'The Israel Lobby'.
The Daily Wire rakes in millions of dollars per large donor.
I have no idea what he really believes, because he gets paid
to believe whatever his donors want him to believe. He's a fraud!
But that's the consequence of stealing that land for themselves.
The Jews lived there for about 3000 years, but they lived together
with many other peoples and religions. People get upset,
if you kick them from their land and put your own flag on their land.
Is that so difficult to understand?
It's easier to kill all the natives when you conquer land, because then
they cannot bother you anymore. It's what your American ancestors did.
That's pretty bad though. Wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical, if the whole world
first united against Hitler, for exterminating 6 million Jews and then help those Jews to exterminate tens or hundreds of millions of Muslims, to clear out the whole Middle East, for themselves?
Besides, after WWII, there were about 3.8 million Jews left in the world.
That's not enough people to populate and protect the whole Middle East.
Israel was big enough for that population. It's just getting a bit small, now there are about 10 million of them. That's why they are stealing more land.
"Arab fears that Jews were attempting to seize control of Jerusalem's Wailing Wall in August 1929 caused a series of riots which left 133 Jews and 116 Arabs dead."
This was one more tic on the side of nationalization. The clincher was the 5,000,000+ Jews kIlled by the Nazis while other countries looked away.
They where willing to co-exist with other Arab people. Heck, in the nationalization Arabs were included.
Israel was clearly intended to be a Jewish nation state, and it turned
into an apartheid regime against Palestinians very quickly.
Don't take my word for it, read what Amnesty International writes about it.
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"Arab fears that Jews..." They feared correctly.
They have been under attack, because they have never stopped attacking.
It's like if you cut the tires of your neighbors car every night
and then go crying if he kicks your ass one day, when he caught you.
And then you kill him, his family, his friends and all his colleagues.
Another example then. I'm sure you heard of the IRA in Ireland?
They did some horrible terrorist attacks and killed children too.
So was it OK if Ireland then bombed the whole of Belfast to rubble?
Or how about if some gangsters from the Bronx kill the owner, his wife and the stock clerk of a 7/11. Is it now OK, to bomb the whole 'hood'?
Oct 11 (Reuters) - The fighting between Israel and Hamas, which launched a surprise attack on Saturday, is the latest in seven decades of war and conflict between Israelis and Palestinians that has drawn in outside powers and destabilized the wider Middle East.
you are not going to pull a "Trump" fake news, now, are you?
Of course, it's an analogy. Just like the other two examples.
Do you think it's not a fair analogy? If not, why not?
Have you seen what happens in Gaza now?
Do they show you or is it censored in the US?
I do not pick sides, when both sides are doing evil.
I just want the killing and suffering to end.
What do you see as the outcome of this? Does this solve anything?
Is this allowing Israel to administer revenge, until they feel satisfied?
Is leveling Gaza going to prevent future attacks? For how long?
Don't you think Hamas will be back with a vengeance in a few years?
And then what, do it all over again?
Yes, Hamas will return or some like group. Sometimes, people look at the near future only. In this case, I believe Israel reached a point where it wants some tranquility. You have to admit that it doesn't matter who threw the first punch long ago. The problem is with the present.
History does tend to repeat itself.
It is past time to let Israel do what needs to be done to END the violence. If the muslims aint got no more sense than to side with hamas or hazbrola or some other nit shit terrorist group, then blow them to hell.
there are times that call for dealing with a problem once and for all, and this is 1 of them. Problems with israel have been going on for decades,time to end it so the world can get on with fixing other problems.
the aid being sent there could be going elsewhere to folks who need it that didn't kill their way into the situation they are in.
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Hamas is a horrible organization. Israel is not.
Which means bombing or starving 2 million people to death?
I would like this to end too, but not in a Holocaust.
The realistic solution would be to force Egypt to take in ALL Palestinians as refugees and then let Israel take the whole Gaza strip. That would be less of a crime against humanity than flattening Gaza and then keep te surviving population starving among the rubble. You are literally asking Israel to starve every last person in Gaza. That would make them worse than anything any terrorist has ever done. It's even worse than Hitler's gas chambers. Do you really want the US to be complicit in that?
However, I don't think Netanyahu will end Gaza or Hamas.
He needs both Gaza and especially Hamas, to justify his killing and stealing the rest of the West bank.
Just like he propped up Hamas before, he will do it again, so Hamas can start bombing Israeli's again ASAP, and then Netanyahu can rinse and repeat this over and over and over, while stealing the rest of the West bank.
You are being horrible to support genocide.
And you are a dumb-ass to think Israel wants to solve anything.
The cost and logistics.
The US funds and arms Egypt too. Don't you find it incredibly strange how much your presidents cuck themselves to Israel? YOU PAY THEM and arm them and they get cocky with you.
You know why both Trump and Biden suck up to Netanyahu? Because there are lots of Pro-Israel Super-PACs giving contributions to the candidates of both parties. A lot of them aren't even Jews or Israelis, they are Christian conservative fundamentalists, who see Israel as important to their religion.
Those Christian fundamentalists are the same people who fill your politics and your airwaves with pro-Israel propaganda.
I'm not affected by that propaganda, because our politics isn't as muddled by campaign contributions and because we don't have that many Christian fundamentalists muddling in our politics and our media. Neither Israel nor Palestine mean anything to me. They are just two cultures fighting to live on the same plot of dust and rocks. I see one culture being sneaky bastards and constantly being dicks tot the other culture and I see the other culture lashing out in horrible hatred and violence, which is then answered with faux indignation and 10 times the violence.
There is no good vs bad, it's only and all fucking evil shit.
And what I find mostly ridiculous, is how people can think that there is an all-powerful, omniscient, and all-benevolent god in control of this all. There are three major religions involved and I see nothing but evil, petty, human stupidity at work.
That's like my country trying to conquer all the rest of Europe.
Israel has a pretty strong defense force, but Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt and Iran are stronger.
The attacking force always requires more soldiers and more weapons to make a dent against the defending force.
OK, Ukraine is still standing, but what chance do you think Ukraine would have had, when they had attacked Russia?
They could protect an Islamic ally.
Which countries could Israel conquer or be allowed to conquer realistically? Maybe Lebanon and Syria, because those countries are not really friends of the West. The West would not allow Israel to attack Jordan and Egypt. The other Muslim countries are behind those other countries. If Israel would want to attack Iraq or Iran, they would be at war with all the other Muslim countries too. Israel is very small. Sure, they have a strong military, but the combined force of the other Middle Eastern countries can wipe them off the map in no time. Those nukes are useless. If they use them, they start a nuclear war and get obliterated instantly. It only takes a few nukes to end Israel, but it takes many to end all those Middle Eastern countries. The US is not going to back them up. That's not being a traffic cop, that's protecting your own oil interests.
very cheap fuel prices. I still pay $7.77/gallon for Euro95,
and that's at the cheapest gas station in the area.
Don't you pay less than half that?
What is left can only be extracted by fracking.
This is destroying your dwindling water sources.
You're sacrificing your agriculture and health, for oil.
That's why alternative energy isn't just the smart thing
to do to reduce climate change. It also reduces pollution.
And it reduces our dependency on horrible tyrannical regimes, like Saudi Arabia and Russia.
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