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Yea ,right.
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But for some, it could be a pivotal day in your life.
The decisions you make tomorrow, could mean in 9 months you are changing diapers, or planning your next fishing trip.
It could be that in 9 months you are sitting in dr's offices and accumulating medical debt from child birth or upgrading the sound system in your truck.
It could be that in 9 months you are living in regret because the person you chose to marry turned out to be a evil gold digging monster, or you could be putting a new roof on your house that is paid for and in YOUR name.
OR in the few rare cases, in 9 months you could be the happiest person alive after finding that rare human that fits your life to a T. To those few, I will say,i am happy for you folks, but remember your situation is RARE and fragile .Enjoy it. Life is short and we are promised NOTHING when born ,but we know death is certain.
without changing diapers in 9 months, if they don't want to.
Goldberg's birth name is Caryn Elaine Johnson.
An opinion from a concerned, neutral, centrist American.
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If Elon tried to copy Usain Bolt's victory pose or something, he had enough time now
to explain that, and say how awful he thinks it is, that he was misunderstood.
He did nothing like that. He calls the outrage "dirty tricks" from the left.
Well Elon, what did you do then? What was that supposed to be?
It wasn't a mistake. Doing it once is weird, doing it twice is intentional.
And why are all the neo-nazis so happy about it?
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They got the message, so don't cry when we know what you did too.
Elon Musk is a very smart man, that knows how to motivate people and hire smart people to get things accomplished, if you read this quick google search result, not moving his arms in politically correct ways may very well be a part of his disability.
Just think of it as a retarded 12 year old that won a swim competition. they are excited but they don't exactly move their bodies like Riley Gaines,
"Asperger's syndrome is often considered a high-functioning type of autism.
People with Asperger's may have fewer challenges with language and cognitive development than those with more severe autism.
Symptoms of Asperger's include difficulty with social interactions, restricted interests, and a desire for sameness.
Musk has said that he doesn't always have a lot of intonation or variation in his speech. "
"Yes, Asperger syndrome, which is considered part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), can significantly affect a person's physical movements, often manifesting as clumsiness, poor coordination, awkward gait, and difficulty with fine motor skills like handwriting, due to potential issues with proprioception (body awareness) and motor planning. "
so let me copy and repaste the part that YOU and so many others needs to understand here,
""Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), can significantly affect a person's physical movements, often manifesting as clumsiness, poor coordination, awkward gait,""
Did you catch that,CLUMSINESS, Awkward?
So to the nazi's that are happy, they are ignorant of the facts. to the democrats that are calling Elon hitler, they are hamas sympathizers so fuck them to.
Obviously his autism or Asperger's didn't prevent him to become the wealthiest man
on the planet, so he's responsible for his actions.
Stop gaslighting, being against genocide is not sympathizing with Hamas.
French guy Macron is also a big fan of the Roman salute...
Where's the outrage when they do it....?
to find one still image where their arm is at an angle that you can call a salute.
If you see the actual video, then you know they're just waving.
Are you telling me that Elon was just waving?
When the guy gets excited he has tics...he has Asperger's ffs..not a nazi salute, impulsive reaction to admiration yes..
Two of my GF's nephews have autism, they have all kinds of tics,
but I've never seen them do that. They also tend to copycat behavior,
so if they are around people who do something like that a lot, they might
start doing something like that. Maybe that's what happened to Elon.
Why would he be around people who do something like that a lot?
I started with: "He had enough time now to explain that,
and say how awful he thinks it is, that he was misunderstood."
Why do you feel the need to defend him, if he doesn't himself?
Everyone loved Elon when he was for democrats.....
Why am I defending him? I'm not, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy......
Politicians don't do it at all, your side just does make-believe.
Elon was probably testing the waters, to see if you are ready for it yet.
You are, at least ready to defend it. In time, you will just accept it.
Trump has succeeded normalizing calling people "vermin", talking about
"the enemy within", making fun of imprisoning his enemies, talking about executing them, and making sure you only accept elections if he wins.
And you are ALL doing projection and false hypocrisy claims for him.
It's very sad how much that guy has managed to hack your brains.
Elon never was for anyone besides HIM. He just makes most of his money
selling electric cars. There aren't many MAGA-guys buying electric cars.
Maybe they (you?) will now, now that they (you?) think he's on their (your) side.
It only took 44 billion dollars for buying Twitter and some re-posting of nonsense that he knows you lot like.
There are billionaires funding the Republicans and there are billionaires
funding the democrats. Most of them fund BOTH.
They are not supporting the parties, they are buying support for THEM.
I hope you understand that.
Elon just wants tax-cuts for him and big tax-payer investments in his rockets, and the government to stop spending money on things he considers waste, like your social security, healthcare and education. He doesn't need educated Americans, those are annoying, and he can get his workers cheaper with H-1B Visas.
What side do you think am I on? I actually think musk is an idiot.
American politics is bipartisan....so you have to pick a side... Democrats loved musk for electric cars,now look at how they treat him because he owns part of twitter...
Most Americans I know are "issues" people,and have voted for both parties and don't blindly follow a party...
I am not projecting anything, I'm not virtual signalling.
And I understand how lobbying works...
Maga people own the shares of Tesla,so they don't care who buys the cars ,they are proponents of free trade...
How about this idea; Democrats don't like Elon, because he specifically bought X to turn it into a conspiracy theorist's wet dream (the owner repeating your BS to 214,700,000 users), because he paid peoples $47 to register and did a
$1 million-a-day lottery that (almost) only ended up at Republican voters,
and because a private multi-billionaire who receives investments from the government will be getting power over the governments finances.
You hate George Soros with a passion, but while Elon Musk's corruption is much more clear and grotesque, you are unable to understand the other side. That's hypocrisy.
on what you are saying and I'm not assuming anything.
"American politics is bipartisan....so you have to pick a side."
No, you don't have to pick a side, and you certainly don't have to defend a site.
"don't blindly follow a party..." I'm sorry, but you are, if you think you are obligated to defend Elon Musk in any way. Elon isn't entitled to be treated well by Democrats, and especially not by "tree-hugging socialists" like me. I give Elon credit for making electric cars cool, which is probably a good step towards SOME reduction of CO2, and stimulating innovations in battery technology, which is more important, but I've always understood that he's only slightly different than all other billionaires; they are all only in it for themselves.
The working class is just livestock to them. Some think it's important to keep
the livestock happy, others just exploit the livestock as much as they can
get away with. They are like consumers making a choice between eggs from battery cages and free range eggs. It's up to you if you want to be a chicken, for the wealthy, laying their golden eggs and only getting some corn in return.
I don't want to be such a chicken, that's why I'm a socialist.
Here is a question: I'm sure you are told many horrible things about socialists. Are you going to assume what I am and tell me what you think I believe in, now?
Are you going to make assumptions of me? I will answer questions too,
unless they are loaded with false assumptions. Then I will need to first
address those false assumptions.
If you allow yourself to be pushed to a side, you'll loose your independent thinking. That's what happened to you, by thinking you needed to pick a side.
MAGA people are supporting tariffs, they are NOT proponents of free trade.
I'm actually principally neutral on tariffs. They can be very useful if implemented specifically and strategically. That's not what Trump is doing, he is doing general tariffs, for reasons that have no relation with international trade, whatsoever. He's just trying to slap around with them, to make countries
bow to him. He tried that before. Did you think it resulted in anything positive then? What do you think it will result in now?
That's exactly what it was.
What gets me is you folks think that a man in his position, that makes investments in country's all over the world, would risk his name ,reputation, and fortune, doing a nazi salute on purpose. What the hell would he gain from it? the support of a few skin heads hunkered down in a old barn in georgia with a couple 1950's hand grenades and 3d printed ak-47s?
If joe biden had done this with his arm while gritting his false teeth you folks would be furious if someone called him a nazi.
Can you imagine trying to discuss a topic and keep each sub group separated?
whatever they did, at whatever the cost.
I don't do that. I defend "my side" to obvious made up nonsense,
and to your side's fake hypocrisy outrage.
If "my side" does something I don't agree with, I say so. That's not the got-you
you think it is, because your side is always worse on that specific thing.
I could think of one good reason for why he did it; he's attached himself to Trump! Everyone who ever did that squandered their name, reputation and fortune.
It seems to be the effect Trump has on people. The list is very long.
Democratic voters did not defend Biden for messing up his debate,
they wanted him to step down and finally got their wish.
Democrats are NOT like you, they DON'T defend the indefensible.
Water shortage was NOT the problem, NOT the cause for the wildfires, NOT helpful
in any way to fight the fires at all.
There was ENOUGH open water for the firefighting aircraft, they just couldn't fly,
because of the WIND gusts of 100 mph.
That released water did NOT flow to Los Angeles, and it is wasted. They were holding extra water in those reservoirs because of the risk that it would be a dry summer.
Wasting it puts agriculture at risk of insufficient water during the summer months.
Trump going after the immigrants in California has left as much as 70% of oranges
still on California trees, which now may have been destroyed by record cold.
That's damage worth around $1.1 Billion. Oranges and all orange products will be
more expansive now. Farmers will probably need financial aid to not go bankrupt.
If California gets a dry summer, the 2.2 billion gallons less water in the reservoirs
will affect their income more and RAISE YOUR FOOD PRICES AGAIN.
The water is wasted all over California....but it's an issue when Trump does something.
Newsome was very proud of the fact he keep the reservoirs dry to protect a fish....
As for the immigration, imagine a politician actually doing what he said he would, that's why people voted for him..
So clearly the democrats want slave labour more than republicans..
And do you really need an orange in the grand scheme of things?why monocrop if this situation is a possibility?
Are you just parroting right-wing media about that protecting fish story
or did you bother to inform yourself about it?
Trump promised to deport criminal illegals, which to me is the most reasonable thing any president can do. However, he's now deporting people who are hard-working people who never did any crimes, except for being undocumented, while often even paying taxes, and working for your farms and meat-packing plants. Is that just THEIR crime, or are those employers part of the problem? Trump is also ripping apart families, to deport people who have been in your country for years or decades and are in the process of legalization. Do you agree with that? Do you think that's "common sense"?
Democrats have been trying to give those workers working permits and rights, so they would NOT be slave labour. Republicans have refused to legalize those workers for year, because illegals can be exploited much more, which is what their base of farmers want and their donors who exploit those illegals are asking for. Instead of solving a problem, they are now being stupid about it.
It's not JUST the oranges and it's not a monocrop either. It's just the FIRST of many agricultural products that will be affected, because oranges were in harvest season NOW.
It will soon be followed by almonds, cotton and other citrus fruit. Then everything else.
IT'S FEBRUARY! How can you think it's JUST oranges? Do I have to explain everything
to you lot? You're not the smartest bunch, are you?
Trump is just acting tough, because he lied to dumb-asses like you, that illegals and transgenders are the root of all your problems. That's nonsense, the root of all problems in your country is greedy asshole billionaires like Trump, who exploit your ass, just as much as those illegals. And you handed over your government to those robber barons.
Elon Musk is fucking YOU over, to become the first trillionaire. Do you like that?
California is a democratic state through and through, everything is run by them,so the issues in California are all self inflicted.
They want cheap labour, republicans have been talking about Americans first for ages now ,how simple can they make it for people to understand?
And agriculture in California depends on the bees just as much the water.
And just so you know I'm from the UK.....
So spare me your self righteous virtue signalling on a sex site a few hundred people use....
Those water reservoirs in California were man-made to prevent water shortages during the dry season and prevent flooding during the wet season. Dumping that water was not the right thing to do.
My bitch is that this president does not listen to good advice nor does he surround himself with knowledgeable advisors.
Oh, BTW, bees are needed for maximum pollination at all times everywhere farming of fruits and vegetables are farmed. What does wasting water with plant pollination have to do with each other is beyond me, but, I don't understand my president either.
--------------------------------------- added after 3 minutes
Being a blue or red state has little to do with acts of Gor, but, I rather live in a flourishing state like California than a failed state like Alabama. Red/ blue, blue/red? How about Americans for Americans?
You have not called me a dumb-ass, so I apologize for that to YOU.
Maybe you also don't think that, which makes it straw-manning. Sorry!
Will you apologize for calling me "self righteous"?
Or do you agree that some level of character or intelligence attack is standard here.
You can complain about being called a dumb-ass, or you can show you're not.
Am I correct that Trump is making illegals and transgenders the top issue?
Do you believe, that illegals and transgenders are the root of all the problems?
If so, how are illegals and transgenders the root of all the problems?
If you don't think so, then what is the root cause of problems in the US (or the world)?
Did you think you were SMART to think the problem is only oranges? Is it?
Have you now informed yourself about the fish/water dilemma? What's the issue?
Many of the other defenders of right-wing policies use at least a tenfold of name calling towards me. Did you ever notice? I've never seen you call out anyone else on that.
What issues in California are you referring to? It's the largest economy in the US.
Do you think "more water" would have prevented or helped put out the wildfires?
That's just Trump being stupid or Trump thinking people are stupid.
His thinking is not more advanced than: "Fire! Need water!" That's caveman thinking.
At least you now recognize that the problem with illegals is not created by just those illegals, but primarily by EMPLOYERS exploiting them for cheap labor.
WHICH PARTY is against legalizing immigrants and raising the minimum wage?
Can legal migrant workers be "slave labor", when the minimum wage is $16/hour?
California is no different than any other state with agriculture.
The agriculture in every state is heavily leaning on illegal workers.
Allow California to issue working permits and they would do it.
"Americans first" is just a slogan. Everything they do results in the opposite.
Yes, bees are very important. Who is reversing pesticides regulation?
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Why are you defending Republicans or Trump, if you're from the UK?
How is what he does helping you? Can't you see the damage he's doing?
Why do you call what I do "self righteous virtue signalling"?
What motivation do you think I have, to voice my opinions?
Why I am the only one doing it and not all those other people voicing their opinions?
Or is that you recognizing that there is no "virtue" in anything they are saying?
The term "virtue signaling" is normally used for public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate your good character, while behaving, engaging with people and the world around you, in contradictory manner.
You don't know me, so how do you know if I'm behaving, engaging with people
and the world around me, in contradictory manner.
I am actually supporting my left-wing opinions in real life. I'm an active member of a left-wing political party, that represents the opinions that I "virtue signal" here.
I go out to promote the policies of that political party. I help the party in being active in the community. We help people who are suffering from right-wing policies, like the ones that massively increased their rent and energy bill, made them live in drafty, moldy houses, because rent corporations are fucking them over. I'm joining protests against our increasing healthcare costs, because our right-wing parties privatized healthcare.
I join protests for equality and human rights; the virtues that I "signal".
How do you think politics in the UK can improve the lives of British people?
How are you helping them represent/support those goals?
Do YOU do anything else than post on a sex site a few hundred people use?
So you just keeping adding whataboutism..
And you are so partisan,it reeks through you and you don't believe your views are wrong....
That hubris is a fools errand
Point out a few of my whataboutisms then. Then I'll provide better arguments.
Do you think the "to protect a fish" argument isn't whataboutism?
I am the opposite of partisan. I'm principled! Do you know the difference?
I couldn't care less about which party supported my principles.
If another party represented my principles better than the one I'm a member of now,
I would immediately switch to the other. I'm not loyal to a party or a specific politician, because they should be REPRESENTATIVES. I don't represent a person.
It's just the Republicans who are acting against all of my principles 99% of the time and the Democrats who only act against 50% of my principles 50% of the time.
I only support Democrats as the lesser of two evils.
There are some really 'good' Democrats, I have never seen one 'good' Republican.
You're now ONLY doing character attacks, by the way.
None of your arguments are addressing my actual arguments.
Just because you're not using name calling, doesn't make you a respectful debater.
Why are you so bothered by Trump and American politics and who American voters decided to instill as their leader?
You talk like you can influence American policy lol,you state you are left leaning,so you are partisan,you call anyone who votes for trump stupid and dumbasses and then expect to able to convince them that you might have some merit to any arguments you propose.
Why should I be respectful to you when you demonstrate contempt to people expressing opposing views?
You think I am being disrespectful, I'm tickling your belly...
Twisting language? Are you referring to fallacies? Point them out, if you can.
If you think I'm the only one belittling people who thing differently here, you have a massive bias. Look around a bit more.
I am so concerned about American politics and Trump being elected, because this is now the second time that Trump is trying to destroy democracy. He is turning the US in an autocracy. He has fired everyone who worked on criminal investigations into his crimes, he has replaced the head of the FBI with a loyalist who is out for revenge, he has disbanded the Anti-Corruption Task Forces and Elon Musk who broke several campaign finance laws to help Trump win. That same Elon Musk is not an elected representative, but he has unconstitutionally gained access to the treasury, where he has some of his wiz-kids hack in to the government finances and the citizens private information. The fact that the Security Agencies haven't arrested them yet, is evidence that Trump has already performed a successful coup of the US Government. Trump might have won democratically, but what he's doing is the opposite of democracy. The American voters decided to install Trump as their leader, based on many many lies. Project 2025 had 5% support of the American voters, but Trump lied that he had nothing to do with it. We are now seeing it in full action, proving that Project 2025 was ready to seize control on day one. Meanwhile, Trump is distracting the global media with threats against Mexico, Canada, Panama, Greenland, Denmark, Gaza, and my country for being a host to The International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague.
Trump is literally copying exactly the playbook of Hitler of taking over the German government; firing everyone who has some power to hold him accountable for breaking every Constitutional law that protects democracy, taking over the Security Agencies, breaking all the government agencies that are designed to organize the government and protect people from companies financially defrauding them or polluting their land, air and water. Trump is canceling or violating all International Treaties and Agreements. He said he was an anti-war president and he's demanding the Nobel Peace Prize, while he is planning ethnic cleansing of Gaza, while saying he's not ruling out military force against Mexico, Canada, Panama and Greenland. Additionally, Trump professes love for Putin, Kim Jong-un and other authoritarians, while scolding the leaders of allied countries, threatening to step out of NATO and let Russia roll over Ukraine, saying he would encourage Russia to
‘do whatever the hell they want’ to any NATO country, that doesn’t pay enough, after those allies have supported America in their wars for decades.
Are you fucking kidding me, that I don't get to talk about that? Why aren't YOU?
I did not call anyone who votes for trump stupid and dumb-asses, I called people (like you) who believe that immigrants and transgenders are the root of all their problems, dumb-asses. You have not denied believing that, by the way. Do you even see the similarity with how Hitler blamed the Jews for all the problems affecting Germans, in the 1930's?
Sure, it's good strategy to attack the messenger, or the language, or claiming their arguments are erroneous. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque)
Will you be able to justify those claims and present counterarguments,
at some point?
Of course I cannot influence American policy. Do you think that's why I'm here? This is a primarily a sex site and I never imagined to find discussions on politics here. I just found it and got triggered by what people were saying. Why should a lefty have more reasons to post his opinions than all the right-wingers here?
You called me out for being disrespectful first. I'm just pointing out that there are more ways to be disrespectful than name calling. Name calling is the most primitive form of disrespect, although some here elevate it to a true art-form, but being a minority in a certain echo-chamber is not a requirement for being respectful.
It might be good strategy, but sometimes being the bull in the China shop works well too. This site mostly has a strong right-wing majority, and anyone expressing opposing views is attacked with more contempt than I've ever witnessed before.
If you have not been attacked by the majority yet, that just means you are accepted as on their side. It's a safe side, because right-wingers usually don't call out someone on their side, no matter how far they step over the line. They do like pointing out the slightest transgression on the other side though, like you are doing.
Virtue signalling,look where you are posting,and the academic vernacular you use,you may be intelligent,but you lack communication skills... you're not looking for understanding...only to push your ideology on to people..
That's not tolerance...and you see things black and white when things are always nuanced.... people do bad things for good reasons and good things for bad reasons...
Trying to think all Trump voters agree with everything he does is ridiculous too..and if you are triggered by things and feel the need to reply,you have to accept what comes your way.... that's the nature of expressing what you believe to be correct...
Where did I say anything about illegals and transgenders and what my beliefs are?
You assume so much from what little I have actually said...
Is there any nuance in what Trump is doing?
What ideology am I pushing, when I'm warning about something unprecedented?
I don't care if all Trump voters agree or not, I don't see any of them RESIST.
I don't know if any are going to resist him EVER. Are you OK with that?
What does Trump need to do, before you get worried?
You didn't say anything about illegals and transgenders, except that I cannot call people stupid for believing Trump on those issues. Apparently, you think Trump has a point then. Am I assuming wrong?
You lump all Trump supporters together, reinforcing that partisanship...
You don't like trump and what he stands for.... that's your right, what I am trying to tell you is that , people know why they voted for him and are happy in that choice and you seem to think that all Trump voters are transphobic and hate illegals..when that's not the case...
Do you know anything about what he's doing?
What he stands for is indeed horrible, but he is committing a coup
of the US government! That's not a partisan idea, that is reality.
Do you care about democracy, at all?
I don't think that ALL Trump voters are transphobic and hate illegals,
but they certainly don't seem to give a crap about what Trump is DOING.
Or they think it's great what he's doing, because they believe his lies.
Before you start straw-manning me saying illegals are not a problem.
They are a problem, but THIS is not the solution.
Trump plans to send 30,000 migrants to Guantanamo Bay.
Do I need to tell you what's wrong about it, or do you understand
something about human rights and The Constitution?
Is it partisan to expect a president to preserve, protect and defend
The Constitution? He just swore to do so!
What point am I missing here?
He has to use laws passed by Congress to abolish or amend previous laws ...so legal framework is already there to challenge Trump... Executive branch, legislative branch and the judiciary...
the government to court, it doesn't happen.
You are counting on a next administration, to put things back by executive order. There won't be a next administration, because he's destroying all independent agencies who oversee elections. Why don't you find out how many American voters were purged from the voting registration. It's millions! When Trump installs all his loyalists to handle elections, it will be tens of millions. Then Democrats can never win an election ever again. CLEAR?
Trump has to use laws passed by Congress to cut or change spending too,
but he has just let Elon take over the treasury. Now he can cut all spending for elections, for election observers and polling stations. He can simply cut funds for voting in blue states, and leave voting intact in red states.
Did you not hear about all the things he cut already?
No bill was initiated or passed to do that. ZERO!!!
Trump can just destroy an agency or a specific part of a branch, by withholding the governments workers' pay. Do you think they'll work for free?
The US government is completely vulnerable to dirty tricks. To someone who doesn't give a fuck about norms or laws or The Constitution, destroying those protections you think are in place, is easy. Democrats have never even thought about the things Trump is doing now. However, many Republicans were willing to help Trump completely destroy the government.
Trump made fun of being a dictator on day one. It wasn't a joke!
Why didn't you actually LISTEN to what he said? It wasn't all bluster.
Ever considered how ridiculous it is that the whole world need to guess
if what the president of the most powerful country in the world is saying
is serious, or bluffing, or just a joke? Am I being partisan in thinking that's
NOT NORMAL?
The Executive branch, legislative branch and judiciary branch need to be INTACT and INDEPENDENT to do something. If all the key positions are replaced with loyalists, which he has mostly done already, there IS NO separations of powers anymore. The supreme court is completely partisan in his favor, he is now mostly immune from the law, and he intents to use that.
If everyone who should hold him accountable for breaking the law agrees with him braking the law, then he can just break the law. And he IS breaking the law NOW. Did you know all of that?
You still don't see...
that reveals your political opinions. I try to unravel the tiniest details.
If you think there is something to the California "keep the reservoirs dry
to protect a fish" story, I put you closer to Republicans than Democrats.
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Translation: "The Netherlands is opening its wallet to allow Syrians to return voluntarily, according to a report from the Return and Departure Service (DTenV). It involves 900 Euros for which Syrians are asked to return permanently to their country of origin."
900 Euro = $ 935.69 Some Syrians have already taken the offer.
And in the United States, there were designated sanctuary cities which provided immigrants lodging in comfortable hotels.
it's probably not that bad there, to be considered a refugee, now is it?
If you're a gay person, fearing the wrath of Muslim extremists, would you take it?
If your village is taken over by a drugs cartel, that killed one of your kids already,
and you fear for your other kids, would you take it? Would you take $34,000?
I want to shelter real refugees comfortably too. Not hotels, that's stupid, it's just enriching the owners. That's just incompetence to provide an acceptable cost effective solution. The same incompetence is wasting lots of money in my country. My party has been fighting to change that for years. It's the result of stupid budget cuts from previous administrations, now costing us way more. They also cut immigration service, resulting in the process sometimes taking years. It's not good for anyone. It puts the life on pause for real refugees, it gives hope to people who have no right to asylum in my country, asylum seekers are sitting around and walking around aimlessly in our cities, and it
all costs MUCH MORE MONEY.
I'm Dutch, we really dislike inefficiency. I even made a career around it.
I want real refugees to be able to be part of my community ASAP.
Sitting in a shelter serves no one. I want to invest in their future, to become citizens.
However, I live in one of the smallest, most densely populated countries in the world,
so we cannot take in every real refugee. You don't have that problem.
I am also a big supporter of international cooperation, to reduce poverty, exploitation and disrespect for human rights in the world, so less people will have to flee their country.
If the world didn't suck so much everywhere else, you wouldn't have sanctuary cities.
That's why "America First" is the opposite of what Trump is doing.
He's working hard to make everywhere else suck even worse.
Anything bad you do to everywhere else, only comes back to bite you.
They are also not special or so smart or so brave or so whatever, they are just people.
You keep confusing two different groups; refugees and working migrants.
I have very different opinions on those different groups.
REFUGEES:
People who are fleeing their homeland to save their lives.
I don't care what refugees are bringing to my country. Their lives itself have value.
If we can accept them, the question is only if their homeland is probably permanently a high risk to their lives or just temporary. If there is a war going on, I only want to provide save harbor for them, until the war is over. Then they should return to rebuild their country. If they are persecuted unjustly, by a regime that is likely there to stay, they should be able to build a permanent life, in my country, in agreement with other countries taking their responsibility. Lately, my country has not been living up to our responsibility much.
If they have the ability to save their own homeland, instead of running, then they are not refugees. Do you think a gay person, fleeing their own homeland for Islamist persecution, has even the slightest semblance of saving their homeland?
Do you think a mother fleeing with her children from Ukraine has any chance to fight back against Russia. Her husband is probably already sacrificing his life for his country. Do those children need to be orphans?
I'm not talking about generally shitty countries. If it's basically safe there, they are not actively persecuted for what they are, and there is a chance of making a life for themselves, you're correct that they have a obligation to their homeland. If all able people of working age leave countries with a poor economy, those economies will never grow.
WORKING MIGRANTS:
People who are looking for jobs, because their own country doesn't have them.
I do care what those people are bringing. They should add something to our economy that our own people cannot provide. That should NOT be cheap labor. If there are enough of my own people willing to do those jobs, they should not be undercut on wages. Every job in my country should earn a living wage, by Dutch standards, living in decent housing, protected by worker rights, no matter if it's done by a Dutch citizen or a foreigner. I don't make a difference between a fruit-picker or a top programmer either. On principle, their employment should be temporary and they should keep in contact with their own country, to take on jobs there when they come up. There should only be a maximum of job permits, decided by my government, on what our economy needs. If it's taking jobs away from Dutch people, the number of job permits should be decreased. In any case, there should be ZERO illegal workers. If employers cannot find Dutch or legal migrant workers, either they don't pay enough or the government needs to increase the number of job permits. The basic principle is that those working migrants benefit my country, but also their own. They should make enough money to go back and build something in their own country. If they do work for my country for several years, then we could think about them becoming Dutch citizens, eventually.
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